Worcester 8000 Style 50w Viessmann Vitodens 111-W - Worcester 8000 Style 50w Viessmann Vitodens 111- - shaya

I would be grateful if I could have some details about both of these boilers.
so I was thinking of a point system from 0-10 on the followings and any details you could share I would be most grateful.
1.Built quality 2.durability 3.customer service 4.ease of servicing 5.user interface
I live in a 5 bed house with 3 bathrooms with about 20 radiators and I narrow down my choices to these two boilers , I prefer the combi because these new ones seem to be sufficient for big house and remove the need of water tank storage which I do not have the space for it.
1.Worcester Greenstar 8000 Style 50kW. I choose this one as most installers can do it with ease, it seems this range have improved in terms of design in case anything goes wrong and it has 18 l/m flow rate which is very important for me for a big house, comes with at least 10 years warranty and seem to have easy enough interface. but its very new to the market and there aren't many reviews on them
2.Viessmann Vitodens 111-W 35kW Storage Combination Boiler
A whole new design a combi boiler that also have a storage so I can imagine it would be something between system and combi, I believe their built quality is better than worcester as they are german and have stainless steel heat exchanger, but I think if anything goes wrong they are more expensive to fix, this one also has 18 l/m.


If you aren't too board already with my question I was also looking into greenstore lecp heat pumps or greenstore lecp heat pump.
Is the heat pump provide enough flow rate? can I have a combi for showers and heat pump for radiators, are they better than combi? can they replace combi boilers?
what are the cons and pros?

Worcester 8000 Style 50w Viessmann Vitodens 111-W - Worcester 8000 Style 50w Viessmann Vitodens 111- - focussed

This is a motoring forum, you would be better to join a forum such as www.plumbersforums.net/forums/central-heating-foru.../ and post your question on there.

Worcester 8000 Style 50w Viessmann Vitodens 111-W - Worcester 8000 Style 50w Viessmann Vitodens 111- - Engineer Andy

The Viessmann design isn't new - it's a variant of the 'old' Range Powermax (sold to Potterton and then discontinued when they went back to a boiler+cylinder design under the same name for the 'gen-2' product around 2004/5) which I used to have (from new) in my flat, which was built around 2002.

The Viessman boiler may not have been available last year when I changed out my old Powermax unit, but even if it was, it was WAY too expensive as a replacement - costing over £4k for the boiler alone, compared to between £1k and £1350 for a standand combi boiler. Admittedly my home is a 2-bed flat with one bathroom.

What you have to make sure is the following:

Do you want a boiler/heating and hot water system that only provides heating OR hot water to taps at the same time. A combi boiler would be the way to go if yes, but for your home, I'd strongly recommend against that due to the high hot water load.

I only briefly looked at the Viessman units, but the 111 can produce 18L/min and the larger floor mounted version (looks much more like the powermaz and also has a far better heating turndown ratio than the wall mounted unit) - the 222 can produce 18-20L/min on relatively low gas input rates, due to the 'storage' design philosophy (my Powermax could produce 12L/min for a gas input of 14kW, the larger version 18L/min with I think 16kW or so, but with a 100L buffer tank instead of 80L).

Note that it appears that both the storage combi units cannot provide heating to the radiators AND hot water to the taps the same time (hot water takes priority). They are useful where you only have the space for that unit and not a boiler + (large) HW cylinder in the traditional type of installation, or for some reason have a hard to get to (i.e. to replace) AND small bore gas supply.

If you have a decent sized gas pipe which can take a higher load, and you have the space, I'd go for a traditional boiler + HW cylinder, though admitedly the cylinder will likely have to be around the 250-300L mark to cope with the three bathrooms and any other load.

It also depends whether you think that the odds of more than one shower/bath being used at the same time as another HW tap is quite likely, as 18L/min on a combi (35degC rise, i.e. around 40-45degC flow temp) is the equivalent to two showers in operation.

Any other outlet comes into use, sink, wash basin, hot water fed washing machine, the third shower, then the other showers will get a significantly reduced flow rate/pressure.

I'd also get a boiler and sysytem sized/configured to be able to heat the home AND re-heat the hot water cylinder (say 60 minute heat up from cold) simultaneously. That would be more expensive, but is very useful comfort-wise on winter mornings. Not doing so would be cheaper, but it means less heat available to quickly heat the house in the early morning should people want a shower.

One thing to note is that Viessmann, whilst a well-known commercial make, are far less known in the UK for domestic boilers, and far less plumbers are accredited installers and won't have quite the experience they would have installing/maintaining them as their 'primary' make - say Worcester Bosch, Vaillant, Potterton/Baxi, Ideal, etc. You may have to hunt around outside your town/area to find an accredited installer who you can get the longer warranty (10 years) from.

They won't be cheap either, including parts, but they are right at the top as regards reliabilibty.

Not sure about the heat pumps - never considered them before for domestic systems with a boiler already there. Note that heat pumps tend to use a lower flow and return temperature than 'traditional' boilers (pre mid 2000s, HTG on 82/71, afterwards boilers use either 80/60 or 75/55), e.g. 50/30 and require a large electric heating element to raise the hot water temperature to 60degC when required, but also need MUCH bigger (or deeper) radiators to get the desired output at the lower flow/return temperatures.

Such systems also don't provide a high output, and will need annual servicing from a competent provider (not a pumber) in A/C equipment. The outdoor units (if air source) can be difficult to site and rather noisy in comparison to a traditional boiler.

You may want to consider a solar thermal panel to supplement the heat input to a hot water cylinder (or storage combi if the tech allows for it - I don't know) if your hot water load is high all year around. More expensive (not sure if government grants are still available), and you may need to install an additional or set up a 'dump' radiator for any excess heat energy to go to in the summer when the hot water load is low.

Personally I'd just go with the boiler + large cylinder design, as many plumbers these days aren't so capable as they used to be - many are barely more than installers of bog standard equipment, rather like 'mechanics' at many car main dealers - they don't see enough 'unusual' work to get/keep the skills and knowledge to really know what they're doing installing and looking after them. You might get lucky though.

Worcester 8000 Style 50w Viessmann Vitodens 111-W - Worcester 8000 Style 50w Viessmann Vitodens 111- - Oli rag

We had a Viessmann vitodens 100 installed for around 7 years. Unfortunately I'd be hard pressed to recommend one as ours was a lot of trouble. It came with a 5 year warranty and during that period had many many parts replaced by eon who had installed it. After 7 years the heat exchanger became blocked and wouldn't clear. The cost of replacing the heat exchanger was almost as much a new boiler!

We replaced the viessmann with a Worcester bosch system boiler and also had a magnetic filter fitted at the same time. Having both of them fitted at the same time gives us an 8 year warranty, providing it's serviced annually. It's now around 5 years old and up to now has run perfectly.

I forgot to say, before the Viessmann installation we had a power flush done.

Worcester 8000 Style 50w Viessmann Vitodens 111-W - Worcester 8000 Style 50w Viessmann Vitodens 111- - Engineer Andy

When I was looking to replace my old Range Powermax boiler (similar concept to the one the OP is looking at), I was looking at Viessmann boilers, and whilst they generally received good reviews on quality, they were expensive and the availability of both parts and plumbers who were fully qualified on them (enough to give the longer warrnaties) were poor in comparison to Vaillant and especially Worcester-Bosch.

The design of the boiler and heat exchanger (including what materials they are made of) often makes a big difference, especially in hard water areas to how reliable they are, but mostly it depends on the compentency of the installer/plumber who maintains them.

Some boilers on the commercial side that are very efficient can suffer from scaling/sludge problems if the installation and maintenance regime aren't good enough. If they are, then they're excellent. Rather like cars, some may not be so 'flashy', but they do they job very reliably and often save the owner more money through not needing so many repairs.