Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

Sat 10 Feb 2024 19:50

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - Slrobson87

I’ve had my car, I’ve named it Jazzy for 11 years and I’m very attached to it. Jazzy and I have had some excellent adventure and it has never disappointed me.
At the recent MOT I was told that it has a dreadful terminal car condition called rust and that whilst it had just passed the MOT this time it wouldn’t next year and would only be fit for the sc*** yard.
This is very sad the official phrasing was ‘ Vehicle structure is corroded but structural rigidity is not significantly reduced (6.1.1 (c) (i)).’
Looking at Jazzy you can’t see any signs of rust but apparently underneath it’s very bad. I was warned about it at the MOT last year and apparently this year it is much worse.
Is there anything that can be done to cure this? Otherwise I may just have to use my car allowance to buy a new car and retire Jazzy to the garage which would need emptying to be looked at and visited to reminisce about the good times.
I’m truly serious and would if possible like to keep Jazzy. I’m not really fussed about a new car and would much rather keep Jazzy.

Edited by Slrobson87 on 10/02/2024 at 19:52

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Sat 10 Feb 2024 20:27

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - elekie&a/c doctor

Very much depends on where the rust has taken hold . It’s certainly repairable, but at what cost ? It could easily be more than the value of the car .

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Sat 10 Feb 2024 22:08

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - Big John

I suspect the garage has been a little kind in giving you a years notice to find another car and really it was rather borderline. If it's getting that bad I'd worry about the structural integrity, especially if you ever have an accident. I'd start finding a replacement - how about Jazzy2?

If you want to investigate further you need to get in on a ramp somewhere to have a look see. If you'd caught it earlier you could have done lots of rust prevention / proofing but I suspect it may the a little late for that. If it's just about saveable I'm a fan of Owatrol oil for external surfaces under the car and Dinitrol penetrator cavity wax inside things. Inner wheelarches are a weekness on early versions of the Jazz especially at the rear as they had little in the way of protection. The online MOT history should give you clues as to what is really rusting.

If welding is required, for a low value old car typically it's not worth doing especially as what is required is usually MUCH worse than it initially appears, in addition unless it's done really well welding encourages more future rust due to the heat involved. I used to hate it if someone asked me JUST to weld a patch to pass an MOT - usually a nightmare. If you really want to keep it anything is possible but repair panels may be difficult to obtain and it'll potentially cost way more than a replacement car - with labour and parts it'll likely be a number of £1000's. It really depends on how bad it is of course - get it on a ramp.

PS Worst car I ever did was a 1972 Mini - uuurgh

Edited by Big John on 10/02/2024 at 22:39

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Sun 11 Feb 2024 09:49

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - John F

Corrosion is an ongoing process. If it passed the MoT this year and if you immediately got underneath and applied anticorrosion measures to halt the progress it should pass next year.

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Sun 11 Feb 2024 17:20

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - gordonbennet

Should really have taken some action first time it was mentioned at the MOT station, unfortunately nobody wants to get underneath and do the rustproofing lark themselves, understandable its a filthy job doing it right, getting it done properly by professionals is expensive and you'll be having a very long day travelling to the chosen place and waiting whilst they do the job for you...whether DIY or pro subsequent re-treatments will be required.

Might be too late now for this car.

Edited by gordonbennet on 11/02/2024 at 17:21

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Tue 13 Feb 2024 18:24

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - edlithgow

You have a garage, so are fairly well placed to do work yourself.

Rustproofing treatment is not particularly skilled, just requires thoroughness, patience, and a willingness to get a bit dirty and uncomfortable. If you remove the carpet you can do some of the treatment from inside the car, making gravity your friend.

I use a mixture of motor oil and sunflower oil, thinned with diesel fuel to the point where it is sprayable with one of those cheapo plant misting hand sprayers. Of the sold-for-the-job products (unobtainable in Taiwan anyway) I've only used Waxoyl, and I think homemade beats it fairly convincingly. Use gloves and eye protection.

Might be worth waiting until the spring and hosing it down underneath to get the worst of the salt off first, then driving it to dry it out before treating

If welding is required, get an estimate now or wait for the MOT. Best to weld before rust treating since any protection applied by a pro welder is going to be a token gesture at best.

For specific protection of a particular component or area, such as one that has been welded, I abrade with beer can disks and bind with sunflower oil, as described here. This works very well

bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/coke-can-for-bra.../.

Here's an alternative view. Cant please everyone.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=110241

DIY welding is possible, though it does involve some skill and equipment.

You would need a good vice, some steel sheet, a flux core wire feed "MIG" welder., an electric drill. plus basic hand tools. Waterpump pliers with long handles are particularly useful for forming flanges in steel sheet, and an electric jigsaw is useful for cutting out curves, with a hacksaw for straights.

If you use the more expensive bi-metallic hacksaw blades, you wont break so many, and when you do, you can make replacement jigsaw blades from the bits, which you cant very easily with an all-hard standard blade.

. I did a MIG course at a local technical college evening class which gave me the basics but I've only actually used oxyacetylene to repair one very rotten car.

I've also paid someone to weld a small patch on a hole in the wheel arch that they said was within the MOT fail distance of the rear seat belt mounting point on my Nissan Sunny.

A very small patch, rather badly welded, 40 quid, back when 40 quid was 40 quid.

This gave me the impression that "professional" welding was likely to be rather poor value

Edited by edlithgow on 14/02/2024 at 06:20

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Wed 14 Feb 2024 11:08

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - John F

Also, if a car is presented for an MoT looking as though the owner has cared for the car and attempted to halt the corrosion, it is probably more likely to pass.

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Wed 14 Feb 2024 11:39

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - skidpan

I've only used Waxoyl, and I think homemade beats it fairly convincingly

So you have tested it under the extreme conditions and for many years just like Waxoyl was subjected to.

Think you just dreamed that one.

For the record I have used Waxoyl since the late 70's, it was essential then since cars came with little protection and a pro job was well outside my pocket.

My current Caterham was comprehensively treated when I built it in 1992. They come with no protection and some look tatty after a few years as the alloy panels, steel chassis and alloy rivets have real fun oxidising in perfect harmony. Listen on a wet day and I am sure you can hear them fizzing.

After over 31 years still no sign of oxidation.

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Wed 14 Feb 2024 19:15

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - Xileno

People on the Land Rover forums would argue for ever regarding Waxoyl and whether it was as good as another product. Some people used to modify it with a cheap but new engine oil, claiming it helped it penetrate better. So maybe not homemade but certainly home modified.

My own experiences from running Series LRs years ago is that Waxoyl is great for prevention but less good at cure. Despite the marketing saying it kills existing rust I'm not convinced. It undoubtedly slows it but I've found it tends to sit on the rust rather than seeping in. I've had better results with Dinitrol (can't remember exactly which version now), it seemed to penetrate better.

It's a filthy job but if you have new metal to protect then yes, get that Waxoyl in there.

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Wed 14 Feb 2024 20:46

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - catsdad

When my indie flagged corrosion the MoT for our 2012 Mazda 3 I got him to treat the rust. He used a German (?) treatment which left quite a thick finish so you couldn't tell how effective it was underneath. However he couldn't flag it again next time as it was his work. For me though the car was on borrowed time especially when it needed a major part of the suspension to be replaced for rust the following year.
We traded it in soon thereafter.
I know from having serious rust buckets in Scotland in the 70's that cars can solder on with a surprising amount of rust. For example my Morris 1100 had nothing much structural left under the pop-rivetted sills. It passed a couple of MoTs. But I wouldn't have wanted to hit anything.
Cars are so much better now. However I am not hard up now and once rust is an issue its time for me to move a car on.
I will follow the Mazda online and fully expect it to be terminally rusty within a couple of years.

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Thu 15 Feb 2024 01:35

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - edlithgow

I've only used Waxoyl, and I think homemade beats it fairly convincingly

So you have tested it under the extreme conditions and for many years just like Waxoyl was subjected to.

Think you just dreamed that one.

Nope. I used Waxoyl once, on an old, rusty car. Thats mostly what I had in the UK.

I found it tended to clog the gear it came with (I had no "professional" application equipment, nor anywhere to operate it) and it had limited penetration (both into existing rust inside sills, for example, and into weld seams).

Oil was much better in both respects, and much cheaper. It might not last so well, a deficiency which the vegetable oil (which polymerises slowly by oxidation and is very sticky) is intended to partly address.

I have had a potentially better DIY technique in mind for a while, but since I no longer have a car, I doubt I'll have an opportunity to try it.

In more ideal conditions, with better access, better equipment, and clean metal, I can just dream that Waxoyl might work better than it did in my reality...

Edited by edlithgow on 15/02/2024 at 01:55

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Thu 15 Feb 2024 16:05

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - gordonbennet

Ah Waxoyl, best to chuck the first batch over your head because by the time you've spent hours heating the stuff up in batches to stand any chance of it spraying and declogging the umpteen blockages in whatever you are using for spraying plus the inevitable drips (clumps) more of it will be on you and the drive than the car, a more frustrating product to use i've yet to find.

For cavity spraying Bilt Hambers cavity waxes take some beating, their huge aerosols come with long well designed flexible probes, through which you can treat inside doors sills bootlid bonnets inner wings and any cavities under the car ie suspension arms etc, not had one single blockage using BH's cans.

For outside areas where things are past rubbing down and painting, i've moved on to painting marine grease on the outside of chassis subframes brake/hydraulic pipes and high wear areas and then twice a year give the whole undersides a blast over with ACF50...note some people reckon there are better products than ACF50 and that may be so but it does all i ask of it and it seeps in well and helsp keep moving height sensors etc from corroding up, once underneath its a matter of 20 minutes to do the job, i no longer have faith in products which cover rust without fully sealing it so prefer oil based.

No effective rustproofing is a do it once and forget it job, its an ongoing thing, few will do this, hardly anyone has the nous to wash the salt off the undersides, seemingly hardly anyone even washes the shiny bits any more judging by the queues at the brick acid hand washes.

Landcruiser's now 19 years old and rock soild underneath...filthy to work on underneath of course but bolts etc tend not to shear off having the equivalent of a twice a year dosing.

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Thu 15 Feb 2024 16:25

Honda Jazz - Honda Jazz Corrosion - skidpan

Ah Waxoyl, best to chuck the first batch over your head because by the time you've spent hours heating the stuff up in batches to stand any chance of it spraying and declogging the umpteen blockages in whatever you are using for spraying plus the inevitable drips (clumps) more of it will be on you and the drive than the car, a more frustrating product to use i've yet to find.

Yes its a bit messy but its inevitable since you are under the car and gravity ensures any drips go down.

I simply followed the advice given in the late 70's that said to thin it with white spirit if the weather was cold or stand the container in hot water. Also ensure its stored inside a warm building and not a freezing cold garage.

The only cars I have done since the 1980 Escort have been the 2 Caterhams and they were pretty easy since they were delivered as a bare panelled space frame chassis. simply brush where you could and spray into cavities and known grot traps. The grot traps in the engine area were never a problem when a x-flow was fitted, always plenty of oil outside even a well built engine after a few years.

No idea how the first one has done, it went to Japan when it was just short of 4 years old but the 2nd one is 32 later this year and looks like a 31 years old well used but well looked after Caterham should.

Since the 1986 Golf all our regular cars have come well protected from the factory so never touched them. My 1999 Puma is still on the road (MOT expires October 24) and we all know how well they could rot. It passed that MOT with the only advisiry being an oil leak, can forgive that, its 24 years old but only has 99,468 miles on it. That means its only done about 59,000 in the 18 years since I sold it.

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