Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - ValiantSaint

Hi everyone,

I'm coming to the end of the PCP for my (71 reg) Dacia Sandero, which is the bi-fuel model. This really helps me keep costs down, as I do around 18k miles a year for my job. Sadly, it's getting much harder to get hold LPG where I live (and the price has doubled in three years)

Also the current model I have has gone up by £4000 in three years, so I doubt I'd be able to buy another one (and keep the monthly payments under £200 per month)

I have been thinking about getting either a three year old electric Mg5 estate, or a hybrid Honda Jazz (current model) I'm just a bit worried about doing lots of miles with a 2nd hand car. Are these solid buys?

Is there any equity normally left a PCP deal to help with a deposit for the next vehicle?

Many thanks in advance.

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - Adampr

Funnily enough, there's usually enough equity left for a deposit if you buy another car from the same dealer, but not if you offer to pay the balloon payment and sell it to them.

Nothing wrong with a Honda Jazz. I would be more wary of the MG, although it should be covered by warranty. They are very different cars, though. Could you tell us more about your usage (distances covered, how many people, how much stuff etc) and priorities, so that we can.offer up some other options?

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - badbusdriver

I do like them myself, but there does seem to be some issues with the current range of Honda hybrids, so if hybrid, I'd go with the Yaris. But if you are doing 18k miles per year, presumably a fair amount of them will be at motorway speeds where a hybrid system provides least benefit.That isn't to say there would be no benefit at all over a solely ICE equivalent at motorway speeds, but it wont be much.

Electric?, with charging prices at motorway services being as high as they are, I'm not convinced an EV would be the way to go for your mileage. Plus, I'm not sure I'd have a lot of faith in an MG outside its warranty.

I'd actually give serious consideration to a diesel engined supermini. Not sure if you can buy any brand new supermini with a Diesel engine any more?. But looking on Autotrader shows you can get a Peugeot 208 as young as 2023 and a (mechanically identical) Vauxhall Corsa as young as 2022. I'd imagine either of them would give an easy 70+mpg.

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - SLO76
How many miles does your daily commute involve? The MG5 is apparently pretty robust, but electrical and trim faults are fairly common. The Mk II Nissan Leaf is a good value commuter too, and dealers are overloaded with ex lease/PCP examples they’re keen to offload. Not much goes wrong, but don’t buy electric if you can’t charge at home and if you regularly travel more than 60 miles from home. The UK’s public charging network is an utter shambles.
Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - Ethan Edwards

I don't know this myself but I'm given to understand some MG5 owners found it isn't compatible with the open to all Tesla superchargers. To the extent it caused malfunction. Like I said hearsay. Due to it being a bit of a "parts bin special". As opposed to the MG4 which has no known issues. This from an EV forum.

You say 18k Mile's a year but what's your longest regular journey? Mile's about 90 miles and an EV with 200m range and a specialist EDF tarriff means I do that for one pound and six pence. Mind you my cheap night window tarriff is ending this month do next month it's a huge increase to two pounds 12 pence. Think I'll manage that !

Edited by Ethan Edwards on 07/04/2024 at 00:45

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - Orb>>

If you look in the Autoexpress

There are special lease deals on offer on their "Deal of the day"

This is one..

www.autoexpress.co.uk/kgm/362790/car-deal-day-kgm-...s

Another

www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/c3-aircross/362761/c...h

Keep loking and get a look at Lingcars if you can live with the website

www.lingscars.com/

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - ValiantSaint

Thanks for all of your help and info. I deliver Meals On Wheels/kitchen manager, so I do about 55 miles a day, with a mixture of town driving and A roads etc.

Back to the Dacia.....if I don't trade it into the dealership I bought it from, I won't receive any money back to use as a deposit for a new car? Could I go to another dealer and do the same with them?

If there's no chance of getting anything back at the end of the term, then I will have around 1k in cash to use as the deposit.

I did look at those lease deals, but with higher mileage on them, I thounk think they are out of my price range.....

The reason I went for the MG5 and the Jazz, was I had a Jazz as a courtesy car when getting a service on the Dacia and utterly loved it. The MG5 was a suggestion of a work friend who's really into electric cars and he nearly bought one before going for a Kia e-niro.

I have seen both cars at around 10k at three years old, with 40k on the clock. I would have to factor in a home charger for the MG, that would be another £1k on top.

I hadn't thought of a diesel, as I had a 2.0 Tdi Golf and hated it. And I would of thought stop-start driving with a diesel would destroy it (used to love sitting and waiting for the Golf to do a "regen" for ten minutes every few weeks)

Edited by ValiantSaint on 07/04/2024 at 10:13

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - Ethan Edwards

Well if your not exceeding 100m a day and therefore like myself highly unlikely to need any regular public charging.And being aware of the Tesla s/c issue. The MG5 would work pretty well for you. Don't worry over much about the cost of installing a home charger, it's a one off and you make the cost back in a few months.. An absolute necessity is you must have allocated parking or a garage near to your home consumer unit. Further away it it it pushes up the cost / difficulties.

Then you need to switch to a specialist EV tarriff...suppliers from memory EDF, Octopus and BG ( though I won't use them). Few others. The cheap power window usually say 5 hours a night of 9p per kw. Assume 3.5m per kw so 80 miles ought to cost you in the region of £2.07 I set the efficiency lower as your usage suggested multiple short trips rather than more efficient longer trips. Even allowing for charging inefficiencies say no more than 2.50 a day. Or in petrol terms half a gallon.

Thanks for the opportunity to consider the matter as its a great example of how EV efficiency can really help you with the green....money that is !

Edited by Ethan Edwards on 07/04/2024 at 10:43

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - ValiantSaint

This is the sort of MG5 I was looking at....

I just found my dream car... Search for yours www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312154852550?a...e

Would one with 50k on already be a bit too much, as I'll be putting another 50k on it in three years? Would it be worth getting a third party warrenty for it?

I'm with Octopus for electricity, but I'm struggling to get them to install a smart meter as there's a huge waiting list and I need one for an electric friendly tariff. I do have a small array of four solar panels on the roof as well....

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - badbusdriver

Thanks for all of your help and info. I deliver Meals On Wheels/kitchen manager, so I do about 55 miles a day, with a mixture of town driving and A roads etc.

Well that driving does put a different slant on it as I had assumed mainly motorway.

The MG?, its not that I am against EV's, and obviously the ability to charge at home makes a big difference to the costs, its more the MG brand specifically. I have a customer who recently got rid of his MG ZS after being faced with an enormous bill for parts you wouldn't expect to need replacing after the time period and driving style involved, nor be that expensive. The reason being that these parts can't be got from anywhere other than a dealer. Parts involved were new brakes all round and a couple of wheel bearings. Might have been some other stuff too, but he was going to be removed of £1500(!) so part exchanged it for a Toyota CHR instead!

As I said earlier, I do like the current Jazz, but there does seem to be issues with Honda's current hybrid range. Look at the Honda CR V thread a bit further down.

Now that we have a better idea of your usage and bearing in mind the Honda comments above, I'd be looking at a Toyota Yaris first.

If you really fancy an EV, fair enough, but I think i'd have a bit more faith in something other than an MG (unless new and getting rid of before the warranty is up)

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - Ethan Edwards

youtu.be/Kj7fJ5JI-yI?si=d_TFfIK2DRB38YxJ

Cleveley run a fleet of MG5 and have found them surprisingly good. That said their actual business is repairing all EVs.

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - skidpan

(used to love sitting and waiting for the Golf to do a "regen" for ten minutes every few weeks)

Well that was a waste of time and diesel. They will not carry out a regen when they are stationary unless they are connected to the dealers diagnostics to do a forced regen. There is no way the DPF in an idling diesel would get to the required 600 degrees C to do one.

Somebody was telling you a load of nonsense.

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - pd

If you're only doing 50 miles urban a day then an EV looks a tempting prospect.

Almost any EV could do that, even a Mk 1 Leaf.

I guess it depends how many "one off" long personal journeys you might do over the year.

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - ValiantSaint

Don't, you're temping me! I do probably ten personal journeys a year - around two hundred miles in distance. Would that be a problem? Would a cast-iron warranty be a decent 100% need with my usage? Just worried about a large repair bill as money is tight!

Also, Octopus a large range of home chargers and I'm lost which one to choose....

octopus.energy/order/ev-charger/products/

Which one would you I choose? (I have a driveway attached to my house etc)

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - ValiantSaint

Back again! I've noticed that there's lots of the Leafs around at a very good price. If I took my Dacia into a main dealer (rather than a back street place) would they offer me any money against the Leaf even though its on a PCP?

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - Adampr

Back again! I've noticed that there's lots of the Leafs around at a very good price. If I took my Dacia into a main dealer (rather than a back street place) would they offer me any money against the Leaf even though its on a PCP?

It depends on how much your car is worth compared to how much the balloon payment is.

You are likely to get the best offer from the dealer you bought the Dacia from in the first place. If you're genuinely considering an EV, I would go back and enquire about a new Dacia Spring. They may cut you a good deal if Dacia are trying to push their new model.

Leafs are cheap second hand because they have an obscure charger type. Fine if you are only xharging it at home, but potentially frustrating on longer journeys.

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - ValiantSaint

Thanks Adam. I've looked at the Spring. Way too expensive for me. As for the Leaf, I would be charging mostly at home. Is it very difficult to charge them out on the road, as such?

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - Adampr

Thanks Adam. I've looked at the Spring. Way too expensive for me. As for the Leaf, I would be charging mostly at home. Is it very difficult to charge them out on the road, as such?

No, but it's harder than some and likely to get harder as charger types converge on one solution. SLO76 on this forum has a leaf and seems to have given up on planning long journeys in it.

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - SLO76
Hi!

I like SWMBO’s Leaf. It’s very practical, it’s quiet, comfortable and genuinely rapid. We charge it at home overnight at 7.5p p/kwh which makes it very cheap to run.

We have tried to use it as our main car for the first few months but we found that although we could find the appropriate chargers easy enough, they were all too often out of service or there was a queue waiting to use it. The Leaf doesn’t have the battery temperature control systems of more modern EV’s so it doesn’t like repeated fast charging, twice in a journey is about your limit before it restricts itself.

That public fast chargers are generally obscenely overpriced and dearer than filling up with petrol or diesel has resulted in us now using the car solely within a 60 mile radius of home. That said we did manage a holiday In Lincolnshire from our home in Ayrshire, but it was a faff and the only reason it saved anything at all was due to the holiday parks free chargers along with the same at another hotel we stayed in Blackpool on the way home.

This suits us perfectly as a second car. It’ll do my daily commute for two days comfortably in winter with lights and heater blaring away. It does most of our local running and could manage the bulk of our needs other than holiday travels and my fair weather hill walking and mountain biking adventures. It’s soothing to drive and it costs a tiny fraction of what an equivalent petrol or diesel car costs to fuel and service. But this all hinges on being able to charge it at home pretty much all of the time. Private charging firms are far far too expensive and they’re killing the economic argument for wholesale EV uptake.

We will for now remain a one EV one petrol car family. The Leaf 40kw is too limited as a main family car, but it makes a fantastic second car. No petrol pumps, no giving money to some of the worlds most vile regimes. Just park on your drive and plug it in every few days. It’s as simple as transport gets, if it meets your range requirements.

The problem with bigger battery EV’s is cost. The ludicrous new prices and shocking depreciation more than wipes out any fuel savings. They are not economically viable without a large tax payer subsidy of some sort. The 40kw Leaf however is available used at sensible money and can offset its higher depreciation from that point (say £10-£12k) with its substantial fuel savings if charged from home. Don’t buy one if you can’t home charge.

Edited by SLO76 on 13/04/2024 at 21:00

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - ValiantSaint

Thanks Ad and Slo. It's a shame that the Leaf isn't too viable for me. They seem to be at the perfect price point for me, as well. Back to drawing board......

On the subject of having some money out of the Dacia to use as a deposit for another car.......I looked on Motorway, and they'll give me a provisional £7k for the car. My balloon payment is £5270 and they settle the finance and give you the difference. So does that mean I'd have around £1700 left over?

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - SLO76

Thanks Ad and Slo. It's a shame that the Leaf isn't too viable for me. They seem to be at the perfect price point for me, as well. Back to drawing board......

On the subject of having some money out of the Dacia to use as a deposit for another car.......I looked on Motorway, and they'll give me a provisional £7k for the car. My balloon payment is £5270 and they settle the finance and give you the difference. So does that mean I'd have around £1700 left over?

Yes, assuming there’s no additional (and unnecessary) fees akin to WBAC. Try other local car buying options too, most dealers buy stock in and two local to me are far more generous than WBAC plus they don’t charge any money grabbing fees. I’ve sold a few cars over the years to these two local buyers, one of them comes to your door, makes payment (or settles the finance) does the paperwork and drives the car away.
Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - ValiantSaint

That's true. I didn't check the fees etc. I bet the amount will plummet as well as I'm not finishing the finance until September. A grand in my hand would be fine.....

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - mcb100
The only real difference on the first three charge points is whether you want a 5M or 8M tethered cable or have to use the cable that comes with the car.
Any of them are compatible with Octopus’ EV tariffs, offering varying hours of reduced rate charging.
Some, windy, nights you can get free charging when demand on the grid is low and the wind turbines are spinning.
Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - mcb100
Don't, you're temping me! I do probably ten personal journeys a year - around two hundred miles in distance. Would that be a problem? Would a cast-iron warranty be a decent 100% need with my usage? Just worried about a large repair bill as money is tight!‘

Reports are giving a real world range for the MG of about 190 miles - let’s be pessimistic and call it 150.
So you’re 50 miles short, worst case scenario. So it’d potentially need a ‘volt & bolt’ on a 200 mile trip.
Quick maths say you’d need to add about 35% of a full charge to complete 200 miles - about £15 on a rapid charger at current prices.
On a £ per mile that’s more expensive than petrol, but the rest of the trip you’ve done at under 2p per mile.
Rapid charging is easy to find (www.zap-map.com/live) and getting easier daily.

I’d have thought that a garage with an up to date code reader would be able to check battery state of health at time of purchase, ie has it suffered any degradation since new.
Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - Chris M

"Rapid charging is easy to find (www.zap-map.com/live) and getting easier daily."

I have several neighbours with EVs and one of them comes up on Zap-map as JustCharge by JustPark. How does that work? Do you have to plan ahead and book a parking space on their drive and pay via an app. similar to JustPark? Or is it possible to make a distress purchase? What's in it for the driveway owner?

There are three driveways near me and all are "unknown status" and moving the search to the nearest town, all are unknown status except the Nissan dealer.

Edited by Chris M on 07/04/2024 at 17:48

Dacia Sandero - What's the best choice? - mcb100
www.justpark.com/ev/justcharge