Hi PU, what do you ride now?
I'm just thinking, you are into BMW cars though BMW bikes are not the BMW cars of the bike world.
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No bike at the moment although I have "looked after" a CBR 1000 for a friend for the last four years (He's going to sell it now), read up on the BMW and been tempted....
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THanks for the MSN write up btw
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PU, Have you thought about a K1200RS, more in the CBR1000 mould?
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Yep - Reasons are manifold not least that I loved these when they first came out in the 80s (or its ancestor), everybody used to say that the Boxers were history...I have a plan when I retire in three years time as well....
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Sorry I meant K1200S, it and the naked R are totally different to any previous BMW, across the frame four cylinder stonking power and torque.
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I once had a BMW R80GS, which was a great bike to ride. I really liked it, but I could not say it was trouble free. I had a broken speedo (second replacement), part of the rear drum broke on a lane in the North York Moors, silencer problems, but I took it out in preference to the R100RS. It was a bit heavy, to my liking, to ride off road, so I could only imagine the much bigger K series to be heavier still. As a road bike it is probably superb.
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Friend has the 1150 model, was a bit surprised to see electrical connections on the cylinders immediately in front of where your boots go, i wonder how many have been kicked/broken off.
As for the CBR1000 iff it's the 1000F model, best bike Honda evermade ( my opinion)problem is when it comes to change what do i buy, Blackbird or 1050 Sprint ST
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I must agree about Honda build quality, at one time I had a number of cohorts that took up biking (I've had a licence since 1980) on examining their preferred bikes I always found that the Hondas (there were two VFR50s in the group) had a quality of build of their own, I suspect they set the standard in those days, early 90s. This CBR is the last of the few so to speak - even the footpegs on it represent engineering art rather than lumps of metal.
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>>(I've had a licence since 1980)
Pfft - I got mine in 1977.
I always liked Hondas. I had a lot of fun with the 400-4 in those days.
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Pug,
Your biggest problem will be that these bikes hold their prices so well that a second hand one will cost virtually the same as a new one.
They are great bikes but build quality and reliability is nowhere near what is claimed and servicing by official BMW dealers is at sky high prices.
They are a quirky bike and so not for everyone. Get a full days test to see if its for you.
You will get much more bike for your money with a Triumph Tiger, which also in my opinion is a better handling bike. The key downside with a Tiger is that it is BIG. You need to be say 5' 9" minimum or you just won't reach the floor.
As it happens I am thinking of selling my Triumph Tiger (V reg). If interested let me know.
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Bought one. Very low milage private purchase, Warranted. Fully spec'd. Can't wait to get it.
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All R1200GS owners I've met have raved about this bike.
I hope your experience is going to be as positive.
I trust you will report on it later this summer ?
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Before then I hope ! Can't wait.
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Don't forget - things that on a Jap bike would be faults are 'character' on anything else.
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Well here goes...
I met the vendor half way between our homes. He gave me a thorough brieifing on it and I wobbled off. Anyway it's big 'un, despite adjusting the seat to its lowest setting, still a bit of a stretch for my 32" inside leg - any smaller forget it. Nevertheless if one's careful it's not a problem. Some weight in the brute but once on the go it's a pussy cat. That boxer has a nice burble at slow speeds and a completely different set of vibes to the Jap fours, I've ridden for the last 20 years - very different. Once on the go it feels a lot more conventional. It has that odd BMW torque reaction when stationary and blipped. Advantage of such a high bike, you see over hedges accross bends, the view of the world is superb. Visibility over cars beyond compare, one of the many ways that this feels as if it's a two wheeled Discovery.
BRAKES.
Wow - what a system, servo, ABS and linked - took me a few miles to get used to the linked bit (The CBR I rode didn't have them.) still using the back brake when I forgot about the links. Superb braking platform, easily out perform the rider's skills. Rear brake pedal is a bit "low" for me, but the reality I will only use it for hill starts. Feedback (which could have easily been lost through the electronisation) from the brakes - spot on, no need to worry about lock ups brilliant ! Brakes emit a peculiar low "screech" whilst stationary, guesss it must be the electronics.
PERFORMANCE.
Superb, flexibility, low end torque - pulls away in 4th gear for goodness sake ! Happy to cruise at 80 mph and you "know" that there's more there, it's not a Fireblade - but it's fast enough, it's almost car like in power delivery, in fact at times it feels like a juniour sports diesel. Gearchange is Jap like, nowhere near as bad as a late 70s Boxer I rode a few years ago. Finding Neutral is hard at times. You can slip into 1st without thinking. No clunk.
HANDLING
As if on rails, unbelievable angles of lean can be obtained with no drama. Back wheel is firmaly planted - thing's on rails, uneven roads are smoothed out in a way that the CBR couldn't approach, these people have it cracked. No dive during nraking is almost uncanny - uncanny, the thing is steady as the proverbial.
ERGONOMICS.
Instruments are genrally "Heads Up" Switchgear is odd daft indicators, Honda's CBR had these cracked 20 years ago. Indicators are odd - let's faceit and have to be thought out. I find I Drive easier to handle !, everything falls to foot and hand - heated grips ! I never thought I'd have them on a bike, mind you it has got a 600w alternator. Prefer cruise control though !. Seat is comfy, riding position superb -100 miles this afternoon, got off in a mate's house for a brew and rode home. No aches. ( I am old). Central warning system is cool, got an amber
! on the way home, comfort to find it was a fuel warning also marking miles to go, which is useful.
SUM UP SO_FAR
Superb in every respect, beyond reproach in every scenario, A,B, as well as unlcassified as well as Mway bursts. I need to tweak the riding position. Yes I found myself laughing out loud, which is always the test. Brilliant. This is a future classic.
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Sounds good PU, I know what you mean about laughing out loud. I was in to sports bikes, I had a 2003 ZX7R, one of the last, a WSB replica, all the bits, OZ wheels, Akrapovic etc, great fun on the right road though a wrist and back killer in traffic. I thought about selling it and getting a Hornet 600 or similar however last summer a guy approched me at the local bike shop offering a 97 ZRX 1100 and cash, initially I was not interested, I had not considered a big naked bike though I was persuaded to take the ZRX for a ride and decided to do the deal.
The ZRX is a hoot, so easy to ride, quite chuckable, so much torque, I find myself laughing out loud as you say.
Out of interst what age, mileage etc is the GS?
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20 months old. 2.5k. The other comment I would make is that the mirrors could pass for 1970s aftermarket. But despite he vibes rock-steady at all speeds with superb all round visibility an object lesson.
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Update,
Took it for a blast today with a pillion (SWMBO), 100 miles, mixed roads, back lanes, A class, and fast dual. Superb. Performance , seems unaffected by a pillion (SWMBO's a size 12 plus), torque allows instant overtakes. easily cruise on the ton - easiliy. The only quibble is that the pillion makes it feel very heavy at junctions, especially with an adverse camber. Haven't got the hang of hill starts yet. Incredibly in swagging bends, angles of lean are pretty extreme by trail bike standards. The noise is superb. Brakes are too good. ( helmet clash once). buy one.
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Oh yes, they've pared off 66 lbs as compared to the 1150GS. They have done this by, for example, using one bulb in the rear cluster for brake, pos. light, number plate light. All fine and Dandy until the bulb fails. OK the computer will tell me it has but the usual bodge of tightining the brake light switch won't work and there's not a mm of space to carry any spares. Potentially stranded five miles from home call BMW Assist. The CBR 1000 had two position lights and two separate number plate bulbs.
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Pugugly,
I'd have bought an R1150GS a few years back but as they said at Rainbow 'GS models are like hen's teeth'.Ended up with my low mileage R1150R and apart from the weight I find it easy to handle and live with and is 100% reliable.An excellent pillion machine as well. I get 47mpg.
I also have a 32" inside leg but can stand both feet flat on the ground, off the saddle(standard height).Handy when you need a quick stretch on long runs. The GS must be pretty high in the seat then!
--
I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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Yep a standard seat on its lowest setting. I am now re-learning how to predict cambers. Cracking bike though.
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Update.
Now sports a low seat - which makes things a lot easier.
BMW Service.
After checking the VOSA website found that there were at least 3 recalls. Checked with the previous owner he said that they hadn't been done so phoned the nearest Motorrad dealer. Brilliant service. The bike was booked in for a 2 year service. Excellent product knowledge from the service reception, bike was booked in. Before it was left, I marked the oil filter and dropped the rear tyre press. by 5 lbs. Service was predicted as 3 hrs and the bike was ready in 3.5 hrs. They gave me a courtesy bike (insured by them) - on collection the bike had a detailed list of jobs performed, including the off press. tyre kindly pointed out. The top box lock was coded to match the ignition as a freebie - normal cost £9.00. Cost was 185 quid. Easily competative with Honda and such like. Not my usual BMW dealer, but I would rate them as better - by far. Free Tea/Cofee/Choc, MCN provided as a read. Very very good service. I'm not going to name them, superb staff who enjoyed a bike related chinwag, better than your usual service bay people.
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better than your usual service bay people.
That is generally the difference between bike and car people, bike shop guys generally have a passion for bikes, I have had a similar experience in the local Kawasaki dealer. I had previously bought (and subsequently sold) a year old bike from them though when I went back with my 8 year old ZRX1100 to have the fork seals replaced, the valve clearances checked and an MOT I was treated as an old mate and left having spent less than 200 quid.
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Great to hear of Backroomers' bikes and other tales. Why not name the dealer? I might have considered a BMW in my recent bike change but my perception is that they are expensive and unsuited to inexperienced riders.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Spur of the moment thing, squeezed into layers of clothing topped off by a Frank Thomas and clambered onto the bike. Just what it wanted as I roar down the lane to the main road, wondering to myself why I haven't been on it last month. Anyway all's well settle into the ride twisty but wide A class to town first to collect some my new glasses. Weather is damp but no rain (yet), grip is reassuring, brakes are spot on after a hefty(ish) rolling test to make sure the "brake failiure" alert is just a self test !
Muse 1. As I approach the outskirts a black Punto piloted by a woman comes down the off slip to join "my" road, I see her crane over to look at me, she slows down, I nod her through though as a prize for her observation, what a difference on a bike were eye contact is everything and reading vehicle body language is part of the fun.
Ride on into town, Saturday afternoon traffic here is heavy, steer around pot holes, ironworks and white lines....bikes into its own now, weaving in and out of afternoon shopping euroboxes, "body language" on oncoming vehicles, makes it apparant that the bike has presence and I'm well visible, PC World roundabout, ease off and feather the brakes as a Rangie drives on without indicating - clown
Muse 2. Why don;t people use basic signals eh ? The amount of time/fuel wasted as these myopic wallies beetle blindly around the urban landscape...?
Into the Town centre, full alert now, buses, cars, scooters, cyclists, diesel spill and pedestrians - its all out there to get you. Park by the local nick, hoping that's a deterent. How easy it is by bike, especially this gigantic tralie, nimble, powerful almost like a little XT250 I once had when its on the move...
Job done, ride out of town through the recently canged speed limits, eyes rolling for cameras..... out of town on the open road and into the next town I called home for a few years on then to the open road, the bike in its element road spray aplenty but I'm cacooned up here feet warmed and shielded by the twinpots, knock handlebar heating on for a while, the smells the feelings.....
Muse 3. This is heaven on earth, perfectly comfortable, warm and safe, the road unrolling like a widescreen Tom Tom, "go straight ahead" brilliant sensory data coming in at all times, signal strength in the full five bars
Pass through the touristy bits and on to a small town, stop for a nice milky coffee and bacon bap - note not a Latte.
Anyway enough press on now, out to the bike, Monsoon like rain now, the side stand is in an inch of running water. More open, but well known (to me) roads, rain pelts down. I have never felt this happy on a bike though, its a solid undemanding ride......I feel the mental baggage of the last week bounce down the road behind me, there's nothing like this, bike's on form now
45 miles later I'm home, bike ticks contentedly to itself - that was so easy for it. So undemanding. Brilliant afternoon's entertainment....
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>>I feel the mental baggage of the last week bounce down the road behind me>>
Nicely written PU!
I must say used to like nothing more that a ride in the rain on a bike, 20+ years ago Avon Roadrunners were great in the wet, after all a soaking wet though washed clean road offers more grip than a damp greasy one. I have been a bit of a fair weather biker for a few years now, will have to get out the next time it rains, wont have too wait long ......... 'looks out side' ............ lets get the bike out!
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>>especially this gigantic tralie, nimble, powerful almost like a little XT250 I once had when its on the move...>>
I quite fancy an XT660, sweet handling and powerful enough to be fun on the road though capable of a bit of green laning etc. Cant justify two bikes though and would miss the stonking torque of my ZRX.
One things for sure bikes are a great escape, even just a ten minute run over the hills or half an hour tinkering in the garage.
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no - more like Surbiton !
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no - more like Surbiton !
:-)
Some of the best TV for years concerned the epic journey of a short Scottish actor plus friend across Europe and Asia on BMW trail bikes. Of course, the real stars were the Russian 6x6 trucks, ferrying the 'bikes and Land Cruiser across rivers. And the vodka, don't forget the vodka. British truckers start the day with tea, Russkies start with vodka :-0
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And the vodka, don't forget the vodka. British truckers start the day with tea, Russkies start with vodka :-0
Was on the brandy last night, will that do?
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Yep - I had that on a loop in the house whilst SWMBO pondered whether we could afford the beast. I don't pretend to be an Ewan McGregor. Nawt wrong with tea though. Seriously I do plan a proper tour of Europe when I finish full time work in 3 years - seeing all the places I've read about, like Berlin, Colditz etc etc.
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Dear Father Christmas,
Can I have one of those bike things like PU has got?
--
Phil
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Great post PU! Nice atmosphere. Heated grips are the business!
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Great Stuff PugUg....At last somebody who understands what a WHITE Coffee means...!!!
This Latte thing has destroyed the essence of civilization in these parts.
Cofffee,made on milk....simple..?...Not on ur nellie...Blank uncomprehending stares and a flurry of behind the counter chattering in a variety of EurAsian tongues before the Supervisor appears to question me further on the nature of this Class 1 substance.
Do U reckon there is a demand for a seperate Honest John Motorcycling Forum,especially for sharing the mechanical stuff.....and of course the locations of White Coffee shops !!!
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Re Motorcycling forum:
I am in two minds, on one hand I would say yes, recognition for the bikes and bikers, on the other hand I reckon that many bikers on here visit Visordown or bike specific forums and come here for a more general motoring diet.
Also there are so many topics that are of mutual interest to both drivers and riders (and those of us that are both) that could get pigeon-holed rather like some interesting new speeding related posts do when they get dumped in ?Speeding thread XIV? or whatever. For instance the point about screen mounted sat navs creating blind spots and hence creating more risk to bikers is clearly not car or bike specific.
In fact I would advocate a more flexible approach to pigeon-holing speeding and motor sports threads and allow threads on subjects such as Audi?s Le Mans diesel, North Wales Police policies or perhaps M Schumacher?s retirement to run independently.
Interesting to hear what others think on the Motor Cycle forum idea.
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Yep - you're right Cheddar.
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Simple as that - I could have walked to the garage to get it but I went the long way round. Nice ride no heroics. Plenty of bikes out despite post frost depression. Only musings today were on the overcrowded switch gear and how illogical the whole thing is after years of sensible ergonomics from Honda. Despite that superb.
Thinking about the Hi Tech cabins on cars, BMW have kept hi-tech aids to the minimum, all the techie stuff in the brakes, engine managment and wiring harness (CANbus). all the more to enjoy the wrap round field of vision and autumnal smells.
Washed the bike down at the garage, remembered the milk and went home. Enjoyed it thoroughly.
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Sat on this @ the NEC why oy why did BMW fit the electrical connector on the left hand inlet track in a position why it's so likiely to get booted especially on a bike designed for off road riding. Never ridden one but would rather have the R1200S.
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I read MCS' test on this yesterday, they loved it, so would I !
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Can't wait for spring............122BHP, 83LbF Tq and 8800 Redline all from a Boxer twin. Nice to see BMW making good bikes at the moment.
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Can't wait for spring............122BHP, 83LbF Tq and 8800 Redline all from a Boxer twin. Nice to see BMW making good bikes at the moment.
Now I have posted this morning in another thread extolling the virtues of the turbo diesel and I guess I see the twins as the TDs of the bike world, more torque at low revs and a lower rev ceiling where as the fours are more peaky. Thus the twins have a lot to offer in the middleweight category, where the 600 fours are very peaky the 650 twins are gutsy. However complaining about lack of torque on a 1000cc plus four is rather like doing so when driving an M5 or a GT3.
Accordingly I err towards the larger multi-cylinder bikes, stonking torque from no revs and always more top end go than is necessary, never, ever breathless, accordingly I am planning to take the local BMW dealer's K1200R demo for a ride, 167bhp claimed or around 145bhp at the wheel, the most powerful naked bike currently sold. Not quite sure about the looks though and the finish is not quite Yamaha / Honda quality, for instance the rear brake torque arm is cheap pressed steel where as a £9000 plus Japanese (or Italian!) bike would give you a nice bit of machined or cast alloy.
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Had the pleasure of following a well ridden GS today, superb road positioning spot on, making er... satisfactory progress on a quiet country A road. I only hope I'm half as good as that. Beautiful bike.....
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Totally agree would rather have Tq at the expense of pure BHP there is no way you could ride a modern 1 litre bike to it's max capacity/speed with out getting caught.Whhere as the Tq on a big capacity bike makes for easier riding. Personaly i find my CBR1000F's 130BHPnice but the Tq it produces at low revs makes it's easier to ride.I.E top gear roll on from 30MPH (2000RPM) with no issues.
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Personaly i find my CBR1000F's
This was the last bike I "owned" the torque from the boxer is on another plane.
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Personaly i find my CBR1000F's This was the last bike I "owned" the torque from the boxer is on another plane.
Thought it might be from the figures and the CBR is no slouch!!
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">would rather have Tq at the expense of pure BHP<"
With a normally aspirated engine, torque is directly proportional to bhp. Perhaps you mean "lots-of-torque-at-low-revs"?
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"With a normally aspirated engine, torque is directly proportional to bhp"
So why is peak torque nearly always somewhere in the mid-range?
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">So why is peak torque nearly always somewhere in the mid-range?<"
Because that defines the mid-range ;-)
I'll dig something up.
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"I'll dig something up."
I look forward to it. I've yet to see a torque curve that looked like a power curve, though, but perhaps we're looking at it different ways...
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"www.blatchat.com/T.asp?id=19946&pn=1&ps=15&c="
That's supposed to clarify..? :-)
Still, I do follow your drift, but it's clearly a topic designed for endless discussion, which suggests that the behaviour of an engine+vehicle is not something that can be conveyed just by a set of figures.
PU loves his bike because the combination of engine characteristics and chassis is just what he likes. It probably doesn't look especially impressive on paper, but as with other techie stuff like hi-fi and cameras, the paper spec is not the whole story. Which is a Good Thing, IMHO...
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"brilliant sensory data coming in at all times"
Very well put, PU. You're obviously enjoying the experience - shame more don't try it.
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>>"With a normally aspirated engine, torque is directly proportional to bhp"
So why is peak torque nearly always somewhere in the mid-range? >>
It's not always, take a 100 bhp 1000cc m/cycle engine, it will produce around 100bhp at 9500 rpm and 70lb ft at around 7500rpm. the manufacturer then wants a more powerful version for a sports bike, the fit bigger valves and higher lift cams to get more air through the engine accordingly they need larger carbs or throttle bodies (plus exhaust changes). It's max torque has increased to around 80lb ft albeit at 9500rpm and it's max power to say 160bhp at 12500 rpm. The result of the larger cross sectional area of the intake relative to the cyl capacity is that the airflow rate is slower at lower engine speed so although this engine pulls cleanly at low revs it now produces less power and torque at lower revs though more power and torque at high revs. Of it's useful rev range, say 2000 to 13000rpm it is really only working efficiently in the upper third.
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Well,
Had a phone call from a Bike cop I met on Bikesafe last year, met up with him tonight and had a cracking ride through three counties. I followed him for more than a few miles, what a superb rider, road positioning spot on bang on the limits a credit to his profession and skills, it was a pleasure and privilege to follow him for mile upon mile, saw the brakelights only a couple of times - his hazard perception even in this "off -duty" mode was a joy to behold.
Magic evening, through countryside and some small towns we both know well. The greenery tonight was incredible, a little crescent moon hanging in the sky added to the magic, he wa son a much smaller bike than me (Kwacker GPZ750) but kept up easily with me when I took the lead. BMW was on song as usual and arrived home to a few specks of rain, in an otherwise dismal summer a gem of an evening to behold. Brilliant - as he said over a brew, "beats telly"
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Glad you are still enjoying the riding! Difficult in these parts finding decent weather to go for a spin.
Barton Bike Night last Wednesday saw an evening out for our bike group. Couple of us decided to ride further to the coast whilst the weather was fine.
And then! Just pulling up to some traffic lights and whoops the Sprint is falling to the right and I cant hold it. Deposited unceremoniously onto the tarmac.
Still cant fathom out exactly what happened but its down to driver error.
Bruised ego and dented pride + £420 for side fairing and both brake levers.
Oh well all part of rider development. Has caused some mirth amongst my colleagues but there is some comfort in that most will cough to having done the same thing at some time.
Think a set of R&G frame sliders is on the shopping list which should protect the plastic.
--
Fullchat
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I fell off last year - can't remember whether I coughed or not on here. More pride than actual damage..
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Now that the trouble with you modern bikers. Your bike falls over and 400+ quids worth of noncy fairing and fancy indicators down the swanny.
In my day, it was a bit of gas pipe on the brake lever to bring it back to shape, possibly a crow bar to pull the gear selector out again and away we go.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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TVM,
You missed out the bit about not having to dress up like a power ranger ! :)
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you can really up your game following a good rider can't you...my recent French trip had 4 advanced bike cops (as opposed to the standard courses bike cops do) although the principles are roughly the same with advanced police car driving
i really think bikers could do a lot to preserve themselves by having a session with a quality bike adviser/trainer
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Did my RAC/ACU with a class 1 police instructor. Gave me the foundations for the rest of my driving career, and compressed quantum years of experience, hints and tips into a few short weeks.
Gradually re-learning: will look for a local bike safe course. Full Chat: thought it must be bike night last Wednesday it was when I went to look at the GPZ and the roads were full of quality machinery!
--
Tim{P}
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"I really think bikers could do a lot to preserve themselves by having a session with a quality bike adviser/trainer"
Agreed. Unfortunately, the ones who think that way are, on the whole, those who least need it.
Glad to hear from PU that he's still enjoying his BM, though. Presumably no ill effects from dropping it? My R80 parks itself on a cylinder head if I lose it when stationary, but I don't imagine it's recommended...
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Broken handguard (£20.00 new for the genuine article from a GS site) scratched spark plug cover (get replaced when I see one on fleabay or GS site) and scratched crash bars (hey that's what they're for). Bikesafe was £50.00 well invested - it may well be the difference between life and death......
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You're not kidding about sky high prices! I recently assisted my neighbour to fit new discs and pads to the front of his BMW bike to cure brake judder at about 25000 miles. At £200+ they were more than twice the cost of the same OE items for my BMW 323 (thanks Europarts!). That was bad enough, but he'd been quoted about £200 fitting costs at the BMW dealer.
JS
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Comparing bike and car brakes is not really a fair comparison.
90% of car discs are made in China with grey steel, bike discs tend to be higher quality (though apparently not in the case of the BMs).
£200 seems a bit steep for swapping a couple of discs on a bike though...
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I'd agree the brake discs are very different components, but the ATE units for mine came in a box that said made in the EU, not China. Wouldn't have got them otherwise. I was really making the point that for the bikes non-dealer sources of OE components are not so easy to find. No, we couldn't understand the quoted fitting price either!
JS
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Just digging up this old thread for PU.
Did you see the recent youtube video?? Possibly not suitable for the sensitive or under age.
So I'll try to make it no clickable. Feel free to delete.
w w w .youtube.com/watch?v=ukAhlxl4hmM
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A smidgin under 200 miles yesterday - marvelous mix of of A, B, and C roads - no duals or Motorways. Envelope stats figure around 60 MPG, cracking bikes - far more common sight since I first posted - "paced" a Traffic car for a few miles - no issues. Nice, nice day very little traffic on the chosen routes.
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